On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, A. van Werven wrote:
> Near 2000, Kendrick Vargas mumbled something about:
>
> > bother.. experiment. That's how you learn. And don't pay attention to
> > nay-sayers such as above... They're part of the reason a portion of the
> > population doesn't understand computers.
> >
> > Besides, experimentation can't hurt you.
> >
> > I would hardly say it was close to crucial. I *barely* know how to program
> > in C, however even before I tried learning, I was building programs under
> > IRIX and SunOS4/Solaris (SGI and Sun).
>
> Hey, if I want to get flamed, I'll ask for it.
I wasn't really trying to flame you, believe it or not. I just think it's
a really bad thing to shun anyone from Linux software installations
because they don't know C. It's bad enough that Joe Schmoe loves
microsoft, but when you shush people away from a good free alternative
simply because they can't program (which from other posts, shows that
proggraming isn't necessary) is wrong and can hurt the Linux using
audience as well...
> I merely wanted to point out the following:
>
> I guess Fvwm was initially meant for Linux in the first place, so it
> shouldn't be too difficult building it on a Linux box.
Actually... Linux was built and based on TWM source code, and TWM source
code exhists long before Linux did. TWM was one of the first window
managers for X, wasn't it? And even then, FVWM was at 1.23 in 1994
(right?) when linux was just starting to approach 1.0 (not even 1.2). The
fact that it runs well now is a testament to the attempt to make Linux as
standards-compatible as possible.
> But on some other systems (ever tried HP-UX ?) it can be quite a bit more
> difficult. You really have to modify the makefiles and even some header files
> to get it working. Then I haven't even mentioned the fact that on the
> HP-UX boxes over here, quite a few C libraries are missing :-(
> And I can hardly imagine how one can modify C header
> files or C makefiles without knowing about C, thus not knowing what you're
> doing.
Knowing what you're doing and programming are two different things.
Makefiles aren't all that difficult to understand once you get the hang of
it. As for HP-UX, the guy said he was a novice and just installed linux.
I doubt he'd spend thousands of $'s for an HP box + (from what you've
mentioned) broken dev. kit on top of the cost for the OS. And even if he
did have to work on this system, someone could point him to a patch (cuz
if it were really necessary, a patch would prolly exhist) and he would
learn the art of patching, _OR_ someone would help him with his problem
offline. Either way, two rather important skills.
> Then about my "don't bother" statement:
> Considering the above, I reckon that asking somebody for ready-to-run
> binaries is to be preferred above going through the entire compile
> process if the person in question doesn't know about C.
I don't think so. Eventually, this person might decide to recompile the
kernel, and then what will he do? He's gotta start somewhere. Therefore
telling him "don't bother" is kinda harsh.
> It should, IMHO, however be the perfect occasion for starting to learn C.
> And, indeed, experimenting does no harm, if you've got the time for it.
> It may in fact be the best way of learning. But if you have to modify header
> files and makefiles whilst not knowing about C, you won't get very far.
> But again, if Fvwm compiles on Linux as easily as you say, my statement
> doesn't apply to Linux.
>
> Next time, please think before you start swearing at people.
I don't remember doing any swearing.
Next time, please think before accusing people of swearing.
-peace
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Received on Wed Apr 08 1998 - 15:06:59 BST