>>>>> "RSW" == Randall S Winchester <rsw_at_Glue.umd.edu> writes:
Hi Randall - I was wondering if you might speak up about this. :)
I've waited for it to die down a bit before doing so myself. Now
looks like a good time.
RSW> I think autoconf is a nice thing to work towards.
So do I.
RSW> I have used it is house and it is invaluable once the effort has
RSW> been put in to convert a large application to use configure. Its'
RSW> primary author, David J. MacKenzie, worked for me while a student
RSW> at the University of Maryland, so I would gladly see his work in
RSW> wider use. However every time you muck with the build procedure
RSW> you will interject bugs or problems that will take several
RSW> release cycles to clean up. Look at what has happened to FVWM the
RSW> last many months.
Very true.
RSW> Besides trying to clean up things for the release, the Imake
RSW> configureation has gone through a couple good sized changes. Each
RSW> time things that were fixed before were broke. This will happen
RSW> with autoconf also. This has also slowed down the releses of FVWM
RSW> ( In my opinion ),
Yup, sure has.
RSW> as constant build bugs that are reported with each beta tend to
RSW> keep people from pulling the newest release once they have
RSW> something installed and mostly working. This needs to get fixed.
True.
RSW> Maybe if Chuck had a few "elves" that he could have grab and try
RSW> his releases on several platforms before he publicly announced a
RSW> release we could clean up clean up the obvious bugaboos before it
RSW> was announced. A number of other lists that I am on do this with
RSW> good success and there products look much cleaner as a result of
RSW> this. Typical there is something like an "fvwm-workers" list,
RSW> where those commited to supporting the product can quickly
RSW> prepare things for release. I do like the open forum of the fvwm
RSW> list though, but think something is in order.
This is probably a good idea. That is more or less what the mailing
list started as, but now there are probably more 'user' types than
'tester' types on the list, and it could probably be split up.
Jason - how do you feel about adding a third mailing list (not
publically announced or not easily subscribed to perhaps) called
'fvwm-workers' or 'fvwm-beta-testers' or something like that? Does
this sound like a good idea to you? I don't really want to impose
upon your hospitality though, so if you don't want the additional
burden, just say so and we'll figure out something else. I could just
make a mail alias w/ those people who would like to be these testers
and just do it by hand.
RSW> I will personally volunteer to test early releases. I have HPUX,
RSW> Solaris, SunOS, IRIX, NetBSD, DU (OSF/1), and Ultrix systems I
RSW> can test both vendor and X11R6 builds against.
Wow. That's quite a number of OS'es. I cover AIX (IBM's X11R5) &
Linux myself.
If I win the lotto this weekend, I'll buy some workstations for home
and test a few more of them myself. :) Until then, I may just take
you up on your offer.
RSW> If we had a couple/few volunteers for the major OS's and X11's,
RSW> then one of us for each or most OS's and X11's could get back to
RSW> chuck in a sort about of time so as not to slow up his releases
RSW> by more then 1 or 2 days at the most.
Which isn't bad considering it usually takes a month or 2 for me to
get them out anyways. :)
RSW> The result will be better quality control for FVWM.
Most likely.
RSW> There are many nuances with buiding things under X11. There are a
RSW> number of changes from R4, to R5, to R6 and between vendors that
RSW> make it hard to get things right if you do not test them on a
RSW> number of platforms. Autoconf will have to deal with some of
RSW> these same problems. When I started contributing my changes to
RSW> the fvwm configuration, I at first only tested my changes on a
RSW> couple OS's and under X11R6 only. A number of bugs were reported
RSW> then by people who had differnet configurations then I tested
RSW> under. Later I started testing under more platforms and using
RSW> various xmkmf and X11 versions, and the bugs dropped way
RSW> down. One more iteration would probably have stabilized this. The
RSW> decisions was made to make the build more Imake-ish at this time,
RSW> and the changes broke a number of things. Now a couple iterations
RSW> later and we still have one or two cycles go before the build
RSW> process will be release ready.
I'm hoping that this next one will take care of it (basically, that
last patch I just sent out should do it, I think). BTW - I plan to do
a fair amount of work on the next beta this weekend (since I have
Monday off too) so perhaps I can get it out soon.
RSW> Lets not do this again right now, as there are alot more
RSW> important FVWM things to work on. The current setup will work
RSW> fine for most of us with a couple more turns of the crank.
Definitely.
RSW> Again, I would like to see further beta releases address changes
RSW> to the FVWM code itself, and see the configuration/build process
RSW> stabilized until after FVWM-2.1 is released.
I fully agree with this and have NO intention on changing the build
process again until after 2.1.0 is released. As you noted, twice was
already too much.
But after that, I'd definitely like to start experimenting with
Autoconf, although other changes (particularly fixes) will obviously
take precidence. I won't remove Imake at first (perhaps never
depending on how things go) but rather introduce it slowly and try to
make it work both ways if possible.
But I don't see any reason why Autoconf can't be made to work just
fine to configure fvwm. It may be tricky, but I think in the end
it'll work out much better than Imake has.
RSW> (my 2 cents worth)
Mine too.
Whoops - I'm running late - gotta go!
Chuck
*******************************************************************************
Charles K. Hines <chuck_hines_at_vnet.ibm.com>
IBM Logic Synthesis Developer [BooleDozer (TM)]
Martial Arts Instructor [Modern Arnis, Presas Style Filipino Martial Arts]
"Go back to sleep, Chuck. You're just havin' a nightmare
-- of course, we ARE still in Hell." (Gary Larson)
*******************************************************************************
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Received on Fri May 24 1996 - 18:28:58 BST